System 4 - PSZHP Unmet Hours

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eQuesters:

We're working on a 90.1-2007 baseline model with System 4: PSZ-HP. It's modeled as a Packaged Single Zone system with DX cooling and Heat Pump heat. Unmet hours in all zones are through the roof, around 6,000. We've gone through all our usual methods to mitigate unmet hours to no avail (zone entering temp, schedules, total airflow, zone heat source, feels like we've changed every input available?).

If the heat source is switched to electric or furnace, the unmet hours disappear. In addition, the design is a VRF system that's being modeled as a PSZ heat pump and has no unmet hours.

Has anyone run into this issue? What are we missing?

Any insight is appreciated.

Vicki Rybl, LEED AP BD+C, Fitwel Ambassador | Energy Engineer | RDK Engineers, An NV5 Company
70 Fargo Street, Suite 800 | Boston, MA 02210 | P: 857.221.5943 | F: 617.345.4226

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VickiRybl's picture
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Vicki:
Would you kindly send the Group your .INP and .PD2 files, so we can help you?
John R. Aulbach, PE
On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 10:34:27 AM PST, Rybl, Vicki via Equest-users wrote:

#yiv4999889663 .yiv4999889663style1 {font-family:"Times New Roman";}
eQuesters:

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We?re working on a 90.1-2007 baseline model with System 4: PSZ-HP. It?s modeled as a Packaged Single Zone system with DX cooling and Heat Pump heat. Unmet hours in all zones are through the roof, around 6,000. We?ve gone through all our usual methods to mitigate unmet hours to no avail (zone entering temp, schedules, total airflow, zone heat source, feels like we?ve changed every input available?).

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If the heat source is switched to electric or furnace, the unmet hours disappear. In addition, the design is a VRF system that?s being modeled as a PSZ heat pump and has no unmet hours.

?

Has anyone run into this issue? What are we missing?

?

Any insight is appreciated.

?

?

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Vicki Rybl, LEED AP BD+C, Fitwel Ambassador | Energy Engineer |RDK Engineers, An NV5 Company

70 Fargo Street, Suite 800 | Boston, MA 02210 | P: 857.221.5943 | F: 617.345.4226

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Electronic Communications Disclaimer

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John Aulbach's picture
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Here are the model files.

Vicki Rybl, LEED AP BD+C, Fitwel Ambassador | Energy Engineer | RDK Engineers, An NV5 Company
70 Fargo Street, Suite 800 | Boston, MA 02210 | P: 857.221.5943 | F: 617.345.4226

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VickiRybl's picture
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Would you please send us your weather file also. I cannot seem to get it to download.
Thanks.
John
On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, 12:27:43 PM PST, Rybl, Vicki via Equest-users wrote:

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Here are the model files.

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Vicki Rybl, LEED AP BD+C, Fitwel Ambassador | Energy Engineer |RDK Engineers, An NV5 Company

70 Fargo Street, Suite 800 | Boston, MA 02210 | P: 857.221.5943 | F: 617.345.4226

?

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John Aulbach's picture
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I had the same problem with the PSZ HP system using 3.65.7173. I eventually gave up and switched to PTAC HP and the under heated hours disappeared.

Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
Technical Specialist
Sustainability & Energy

[cid:image001.png at 01D3A56B.D3EFACE0]
T +1 416-644-0252

2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada

wsp.com

Please consider the environment before printing...

Jones, Christopher2's picture
Joined: 2017-10-12
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Thanks Chris ? how did you deal with economizer inputs for the PTHP system?

John ? weather file is attached.

Vicki Rybl, LEED AP BD+C, Fitwel Ambassador | Energy Engineer | RDK Engineers, An NV5 Company
70 Fargo Street, Suite 800 | Boston, MA 02210 | P: 857.221.5943 | F: 617.345.4226

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Vicki,
Luckily, in my case there is no economizer for those systems. The heat pumps were serving IT and Electrical rooms with no opportunity to bring in outdoor air.

Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
Technical Specialist
Sustainability & Energy

[cid:image001.png at 01D3A577.681B57B0]
T +1 416-644-0252

2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada

wsp.com

Please consider the environment before printing...

Jones, Christopher2's picture
Joined: 2017-10-12
Reputation: 0

Hi Vicki,

When I run your model, I get unmet hours for all except PSZ 9. After
looking a bit further, this seems to be the only one with no Heat (or Cool)
Temp Schedule defined.
If you revert the schedules back to the default 'undefined' for all
systems, all unmet hours go away. I am not sure what this means, but does
look schedule related.
Hoping this helps,
Take care,
Umesh

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