90.1-2010 Section 11 question

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Apologies for cross posting.

I am modeling the baseline according to 90.1-2010 Section 11. The proposed design uses heat recovery chillers with boilers to pick up what the heating loads HR chiller isn't able to meet. In this case, would the heating classification be Heat Pump? The HR chillers meet the majority of heating loads. 11.3.2.(j).(2) indicates that the systems served by the secondary heating source type are to be modeled the same in the baseline. In my case I can't really separate the systems as all systems use heating provided by both the HR Chillers and the boiler plant.

Any idea how the baseline plant and systems should be modelled? Water source heat pumps (System 6) may be appropriate but I would have to add a DOAS.

At the moment, the baseline model has System 2 (VAV with boiler and chiller) but this leads to much lower electricity consumption in the baseline. The purpose of the modeling is for an incentive based on electricity savings - either kWh or kW which ever gives the best incentive. I do have peak kW savings but it would be much better if the baseline had electric heating of some kind along with the gas heating.

Any insights appreciated.

Christopher R. Jones, P.Eng.
Senior Building Performance Specialist
Sustainability & Energy

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T+ 1 416-644-0252

2300 Yonge Street, Suite 2300
Toronto, ON M4P 1E4 Canada


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Jones, Christopher2's picture
Joined: 2017-10-12
Reputation: 0

I believe you are referring to Appendix G. The PNNL document addresses Appendix G situations. In this case, I am modeling to Section 11:

2. Select the path that corresponds to the proposed
building design heat source: electric resistance, heat
pump (including air-source and water-source), or
fuel-fired. Systems utilizing district heating (steam or
hot water) shall be treated as if the heating system
type were ?Fossil Fuel.? Systems with no heating
capability shall be treated as if the heating system
type were ?Fossil Fuel.? For systems with mixed fuel
heating sources, the system or systems that use the
secondary heating source type (the one with the
smallest total installed output capacity for the spaces
served by the system) shall be modeled identically in
the budget building design and the primary heating
source type shall be used in Figure 11.3.2 to deter-
mine budget system type.

In my case, all systems receive heat from both the heat recovered from chillers and from natural gas boilers. It makes it difficult say some systems are electric and some are gas.

Also, is heat from a heat recovery chiller the same as a ?heat pump?? In other words, should the baseline be a water source heat pump with natural gas boiler? That may be the closest fit?

Christopher R Jones, P.Eng.
T+ 1 416-644-0252

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Jones, Christopher2's picture
Joined: 2017-10-12
Reputation: 0

Oops, That's what I get from reading too quickly on a mobile device, I
didn't register that you were talking about Section 11 and not App G (It's
also part of why I had replied to you privately and not including the whole

I'm not all that familiar with Section 11, so don't quote me on this, but
from a very cursory look, perhaps you can go with System 6: an electric
Water source heat pump with the *same* backup boilers as in the proposed?
I'm having trouble finding another way of trying to satisfy both 11.3.2A
(g) and 11.3.2.(j).(2)...

Julien Marrec, EBCP, BPI MFBA
Owner at EffiBEM
T: +33 6 95 14 42 13

LinkedIn (en ) *| *(fr
) :

Le lun. 25 mars 2019 ? 15:25, Jones, Christopher <
Christopher.r.Jones at wsp.com> a ?crit :

jmarrec's picture
Joined: 2013-01-09
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