Dear All,
We would like to ask for an advice related to the Baseline System selection
for:
1. Office building with 8 floor and 12865m2 area
2. VRV electric cooling
3. VRV electric heating
4. District heating for Air Handling Units
Best regards,
Ing. Milan Jan?k, PhD Simul?cie
Budov, s.r.o.
BREEAM AP
?ajakova 13
BREEAM Assessor 81105
Bratislava
Member ASHRAE, CIBSE, SKGBC Slovakia
GSM: +421(0)903776610
Hi Milan,
For more constructive responses, you might want to provide further description of what you mean by "baseline system selection." Is this for a specific energy standard or version of LEED, or something else for compliance modeling? Are you exploring new construction or renovation options outside the constraints of something like LEED or an energy standard? Each of these scenarios might provoke different advice for baseline system type decisions.
In my experience with the likes of LEED reviews, I have more than once run into circumstances where building heating source or other factors appear to make more than one 90.1 baseline system type "correct" for the same spatial areas of the building (i.e. furnace preheat, electric coil reheat for a VAVS system). In those scenarios, I've been deliberate in my initial submission to generate extra documentation to clearly present the conundrum in application of the standard, and to make the case for why I elected to choose one type over another - typically demonstrating and illustrating for example something like "the majority (XX%) of airstream heating over the year is shown to be via combustion heating sources relative to electric heating sources." I've never had a LEED reviewer reject a clearly made case under those circumstances.
There also exists the option to use more than one baseline system type where that makes the most sense. There are for example in 90.1 exceptions to the "one system per floor" rule that define circumstances under which you may (or must - depends on your interpretation) define additional system types.
For what it's worth, I *personally* interpret these rules and corresponding exceptions for the quantity and variety of baseline system types as a series of guidelines to judge what's appropriate, and aren't to be taken too rigidly/literally (i.e. don't get hung up over whether a very different system covers a specific square footage when it also covers nearly half the building - there's an obvious case there for >1 system type). I know others like to interpret this language very rigidly however, and respect that position if that helps you sort out applying the standard.
~Nick
[cid:image001.png at 01D36A87.281461F0]
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
Senior Energy Engineer
Regional Energy Engineering Manager
Energy and Sustainability Services
Schneider Electric
D 913.564.6361
M 785.410.3317
F 913.564.6380
E nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States
[cid:image002.png at 01D36A87.281461F0]
Dear Nick,
Thank you very much for your advice. Some more informations for Baseline
HVAC system selection:
1. LEED 2009 - new construction
2. AHU District heating is clearly dominant source with 92000 kWh/a
when compared to 8400 kWh/a for electric VRV heating
3. The note under Table G3.1.1A allows to base system selection on
predominant conditions which is DES in our case so I would have a tendency
to go with System 7 for our building and use DES as the only heating source
in Baseline building?
Best regards,
Ing. Milan Jan?k, PhD Simul?cie
Budov, s.r.o.
BREEAM AP
?ajakova 13
BREEAM Assessor 81105
Bratislava
Member ASHRAE, CIBSE, SKGBC Slovakia
GSM: +421(0)903776610
Od: Nicholas Caton [mailto:Nicholas.Caton at schneider-electric.com]
Odoslan?: piatok, 1. decembra 2017 21:50
Komu: Milan Janak
K?pia: equest-users at onebuilding.org
Predmet: RE: [Equest-users] Baseline system selection for combination of DES
and electrict
Hi Milan,
For more constructive responses, you might want to provide further
description of what you mean by "baseline system selection." Is this for a
specific energy standard or version of LEED, or something else for
compliance modeling? Are you exploring new construction or renovation
options outside the constraints of something like LEED or an energy
standard? Each of these scenarios might provoke different advice for
baseline system type decisions.
In my experience with the likes of LEED reviews, I have more than once run
into circumstances where building heating source or other factors appear to
make more than one 90.1 baseline system type "correct" for the same spatial
areas of the building (i.e. furnace preheat, electric coil reheat for a VAVS
system). In those scenarios, I've been deliberate in my initial submission
to generate extra documentation to clearly present the conundrum in
application of the standard, and to make the case for why I elected to
choose one type over another - typically demonstrating and illustrating for
example something like "the majority (XX%) of airstream heating over the
year is shown to be via combustion heating sources relative to electric
heating sources." I've never had a LEED reviewer reject a clearly made case
under those circumstances.
There also exists the option to use more than one baseline system type where
that makes the most sense. There are for example in 90.1 exceptions to the
"one system per floor" rule that define circumstances under which you may
(or must - depends on your interpretation) define additional system types.
For what it's worth, I *personally* interpret these rules and corresponding
exceptions for the quantity and variety of baseline system types as a series
of guidelines to judge what's appropriate, and aren't to be taken too
rigidly/literally (i.e. don't get hung up over whether a very different
system covers a specific square footage when it also covers nearly half the
building - there's an obvious case there for >1 system type). I know others
like to interpret this language very rigidly however, and respect that
position if that helps you sort out applying the standard.
~Nick
Nick Caton, P.E., BEMP
Senior Energy Engineer
Regional Energy Engineering Manager
Energy and Sustainability Services
Schneider Electric
D 913.564.6361
M 785.410.3317
F 913.564.6380
E
nicholas.caton at schneider-electric.com
15200 Santa Fe Trail Drive
Suite 204
Lenexa, KS 66219
United States