Automatic Generation of Baseline Models

16 posts / 0 new
Last post

I am hoping the building simulation community can help answer a question for me. What software packages out there automatically generate baseline models for the ASHRAE 90.1 Energy Cost Budget Methodology or Appendix G? Thanks.

Michael Rosenberg, CEM, LEED AP

Rosenberg, Michael I2's picture
Joined: 2012-02-08
Reputation: 0

Bentley havacomp AECOSIM does for one..

*Jeremiah D. Crossett*

Jeremiah Crossett2's picture
Joined: 2012-12-14
Reputation: 0

I think you need to define "automatically" carefully.
DesignBuilder does a fair amount of the work and Simergy intends to do something similar.
As an example, the proper ASHRAE 90.1 EER / COP is not known until you actually run the simulation and find out the capacity. It seems to me that some of the criteria must be ascertained from a successful simulation before you can have a complete Baseline.
Another example that has been discussed in this forum is calculating the proper fan and pump pressure rise to comply with 90.1

James V Dirkes II, PE, BEMP, LEED AP

James V Dirkes II, PE's picture
Joined: 2011-10-02
Reputation: 203

That is a good point Jim. To actually generate a baseline following either of the protocols, it is necessary to first do a sizing run. So the automation would need to be a two-step process.

Michael Rosenberg, CEM, LEED AP

Rosenberg, Michael I2's picture
Joined: 2012-02-08
Reputation: 0

If you have waterside systems it really becomes three steps:

1) Run with all guesses to determine airside sizing

2) Run with determined airside sizing and guessed waterside sizing

3) Run with known airside and waterside sizing

Then the complications of the rotations and satisfying unmet hours criteria.
If you view modeling like a video game with level to achieve and get a good soundtrack, then you can be happily oblivious about how much time you are spending on it.

Paul Riemer, PE, LEED AP BD+C

Paul Riemer's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0

You do need to be careful about "automatic" - it's a complex thing to fully automate. There are more exceptions than rules.

IES VE has a PRM Navigator which automates baselines for both 90.1-2004 and 2007 following the PRM methodology (Appendix G).

The PRM Navigator does auto-generate much of the baseline - but also allows the user to go in and see and "break" or edit the baseline as needed for different conditions.

[Description: IES]

Nathan Kegel

nkegel's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-03-09
Reputation: 0

Echoing everyone's caution for "Automatic" - I think it also depends on what you are using it for. If it's for a detailed compliance modeling, then I would really caution against it. If it's for quick EEM explorations I am sure it's a simpler matter.

Vikram Sami, LEED AP BD+C

Sami, Vikram's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: -1

What I was really interested in is software that does the whole process automatically. No manipulation on the part of the user at all. You input a proposed building design, and following one of the rulesets results are generated. Does that exist and if it does, for which protocols?

Michael Rosenberg, CEM, LEED AP

Rosenberg, Michael I2's picture
Joined: 2012-02-08
Reputation: 0

As far as I'm aware, nothing like that exists. Nor could it, ASHRAE 90.1 is too complex to make something like that make every decision automated.

Eric Oliver's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-01-14
Reputation: 0

I would say that the LEED plugin for IDA ICE 4.5 does a pretty good job.
For most buildings you need very little manupilation.

Sincerely

Max Tillberg

Max Tillberg's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-10-02
Reputation: 0

Bentley's AECOSIM Energy Simulator automatically creates baseline and budget buildings for Standard 90.1 2004, 2007, and 2010.

-------- Original message --------
From: "Rosenberg, Michael I" Date:
To: bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Bldg-sim] Automatic Generation of Baseline Models

I am hoping the building simulation community can help answer a question for me. What software packages out there automatically generate baseline models for the ASHRAE 90.1 Energy Cost Budget Methodology or Appendix G? Thanks.

Michael Rosenberg, CEM, LEED AP

Dru.Crawley at bentley.com's picture
Joined: 2011-10-02
Reputation: 0
Tianzhen Hong's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0
Chris Yates2's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-10-02
Reputation: 0

Energypro from Energysoft does a 90.1 Appendix G baseline
and comparison with the proposed too and generally is good enough for LEED
reviewer. Not very permeable though, so you need two learn DOE2 to really
understand what you are modelling.

Santiago.

2013/2/7

Santiago Velez

SantiagoVelez's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-06-07
Reputation: 0

I should add that users can chose to create the app g baseline models and modify them if necessary or chose to simply run them at simulation time.

AECOsim Energy Simulator does check the HVAC systems and sizing before creating the models. The HVAC systems are automatically created based on preconfigured HVAC systems. (All done with EnergyPlus v7.2).

-------- Original message --------

Dru.Crawley at bentley.com's picture
Joined: 2011-10-02
Reputation: 0

Thank you for sharing, Dru. I am curious, what process AECOsim uses to
model G3.1.3.5 and G3.1.3.10 requirements for hot- and chilled-water pumps,
as they are not direct inputs,

...

Arpan Bakshi3's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-03-13
Reputation: 0