Dear Modelers,
An A/E client is pursuing a project which wants to receive LEED Platinum for
a 2,000 square foot Subway restaurant. I don't know Subway's "back of the
house" operations, but this sounds like a small restaurant with very little
cooking, plus "normal" lights and people.
My client thinks that Platinum certification will probably require ~30%
improvement over the Baseline energy use.
My question for you is this:
Assuming that we'll use top notch envelope and lighting systems, what HVAC
system do you think will enable 30% savings for such a small building?
(Forget cost for the moment, just brainstorm!)
Thanks in advance.
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
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Think about micro-CHP in combination with absorption chiller, chilled
ceilings etc..
At my former position I worked to design a very energy efficient Mc Donald?s
branch. It uses geothermal energy for heating and cooling. It is located near
Bremen, Germany. (google Mc Donald?s, Achim, Germany, EE-tec ? and then
translate)
It was a hard fight, because the central regulations of McD USA didn?t allow
to use chilled ceilings, heat-pumps, PV, LED-lighting, new induction roasting
pans etc.
Johannes
Von: bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] Im Auftrag von
dlombard at earthlink.net
Gesendet: Samstag, 10. Juli 2010 21:02
An: James V Dirkes II,PE; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
Betreff: Re: [Bldg-sim] Small building that wants to get LEED Platinum
use vestibules for all doorways
I would suspect the internal heat load from baking bread is high so maybe put
the breadwarmer/baking appliance with heat recovery to preheat water or vent
air as well as heat recovery for ice making etc.
usually subway's have large windows so glass frame is important and reduce
water use!
location, location, location of subway is important and should be considered
in regards to walking & biking (if possible in that climate), bus routes both
public and private such as University shuttles and any local train/metros.
For platinum I would also encourage them to include a green purchasing policy
to include plastics, paper goods and such.
Debra
-----Original Message-----
I'm assuming this is in Michigan. I'd bet on CO2 ventilation control
(although I'm not sure what the exhaust requirements are). You may even
only need a single CO2 sensor, although it will make control system
selection a little more interesting. Avoid in-slab radiant - night
setback will be important. An energy recovery unit may work out as well
(~5 year payback?), considering the high occupant density, cold winters,
and humid summers (Michigan makes you appreciate the blue sky).
Sounds like one that you can have a little more fun with though, so some
of the other more creative ideas may work out well too. Good luck.
Eric
The process is:
Reduce Loads
Meet the remaining loads more efficiently
Green The supply
Run your base model. Look at the load distribution and then make decisions.
For a restaurant (especially one that small) - I'm guessing process loads (cooking & Refrigeration)) are a huge component of this. Address that first - are there more efficient ways of cooking? Better equipment? Refrigeration?
Here's a pie chart from LBNL's building IQ website that looks at components from a dataset of measured restaurants. Cooking & Refrigeration are 62% of the total energy use. You're not going to get to 30% without addressing this.
[cid:image001.png at 01CB21AC.05430180]
Once you address the large loads, the rest is relatively easy.
Vikram Sami, LEED AP
Hi Bill,
I've found it's very difficult, if not impossible, to control in the
actual building, especially as your slab thickness increases. The slab
can't cool at night and heat back up fast enough to get any meaningful
comfort control and energy savings. A controls contractor might try it
if there's a secondary heat source (probably just an 80% efficient
furnace in situations like this), but normally they just get overwritten
to a constant temperature. If you have someone who can spend a good
chunk of time commissioning it, you might be more successful... Has
anyone had better luck with this than me?
Eric
Hi James,
Sounds like fun and you're getting all kinds of cool ideas!
There is a locally owned pizza parlor here in Portland that has done many
inventive things. Below is the like that you can read at your leisure. They
have great pizza, too!
Hot Lips Pizza:
http://www.hotlipspizza.com/about/sustainability/greenpower.html
The page you'll open to covers a cool sounding refrigeration technology.
They quote a 30% energy savings just from using it. There's a lot more on
their website including the use of locally grown organic ingredients,
sustaining bees, composting, etc., etc. I'm sure you'll find some ideas
applicable to Subway's, if not all of them.
It would be fun to hear how this turns out for you. Maybe you can make a
presentation at IBPSA's conference or an ASHRAE conference or somewhere.
Cheers,
Carol
To reduce refrigeration loads, you might want to look at hardware that
will improve the efficiency of walk-in coolers - like FreeAire.
This product also has the capability of introducing outdoor air directly
into the coolers to replace refrigeration entirely when the outdoor air
is cold enough.
Dave Bryan, AIA, LEED AP
Meet the remaining loads more efficiently
Green The supply
Run your base model. Look at the load distribution and then make decisions.
For a restaurant (especially one that small) - I'm guessing process
loads (cooking & Refrigeration)) are a huge component of this. Address
that first - are there more efficient ways of cooking? Better equipment?
Refrigeration?
Here's a pie chart from LBNL's building IQ website that looks at
components from a dataset of measured restaurants. Cooking &
Refrigeration are 62% of the total energy use. You're not going to get
to 30% without addressing this.
Once you address the large loads, the rest is relatively easy.
*Vikram Sami*, LEED AP
*From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *Eric O'Neill
*Sent:* Monday, July 12, 2010 10:03 AM
*To:* James V Dirkes II, PE; bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
*Subject:* Re: [Bldg-sim] Small building that wants to get LEED Platinum
I'm assuming this is in Michigan. I'd bet on CO_2 ventilation control
(although I'm not sure what the exhaust requirements are). You may even
only need a single CO_2 sensor, although it will make control system
selection a little more interesting. Avoid in-slab radiant -- night
setback will be important. An energy recovery unit may work out as well
(~5 year payback?), considering the high occupant density, cold winters,
and humid summers (Michigan makes you appreciate the blue sky).
Sounds like one that you can have a little more fun with though, so some
of the other more creative ideas may work out well too. Good luck.
Eric
*From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *James V
Dirkes II, PE
*Sent:* Saturday, July 10, 2010 11:36 AM
*To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
*Subject:* [Bldg-sim] Small building that wants to get LEED Platinum
Dear Modelers,
An A/E client is pursuing a project which wants to receive LEED Platinum
for a 2,000 square foot Subway restaurant. I don't know Subway's "back
of the house" operations, but this sounds like a small restaurant with
very little cooking, plus "normal" lights and people.
My client thinks that Platinum certification will probably require ~30%
improvement over the Baseline energy use.
My question for you is this:
Assuming that we'll use top notch envelope and lighting systems, *what
HVAC system* do you think will enable 30% savings for such a *small
building*? (Forget cost for the moment, just brainstorm!)
Thanks in advance.
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP
*From:* bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org
[mailto:bldg-sim-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] *On Behalf Of *mike steadman
*Sent:* Thursday, June 24, 2010 4:19 PM
*To:* bldg-sim at lists.onebuilding.org
*Subject:* [Bldg-sim] question
Hi,
What software do you suggest for Modeling Commercial buildings?
I live in Michigan work for a company doing energy audits from
5000-120000 square feet.
Energy Plus -over my head
equest-CA defaults
DOE 2.1 or DOE 2.2 ?
Would like a free option and one that I have to buy?
Thank you
Mike
Thanks to all who responded. Your comments were very helpful!
James V. Dirkes II, P.E., LEED AP