URGENT: VRV modeling - input variables

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Dear all,

I have a meeting with the Mechanical engineers tomorrow, and one of the
topics to be discussed is VRVs.

The HVAC strategy was VAV for all the school, with FCU's for 15
specified zones.

An update to the design changed 4 of these 15 zones into a VRV system (I
do not know why they decided on this!)

So I must now model these zones with VRV systems.

My urgent questions that may require further discussion with the
Mechanical design engineers are:

1. I think I must know the performance curves of the VRV system.
However, the final choice of the VRV brand is not finalized, and I may
need to assume a typical performance curve. Any idea on which curve to
use?
2. I have the EER of the VRV system to be 10. Where should I enter
this? Is it that I need to create a separate chiller for the VRVs with
an EER of 10?
3. What additional important input variables do I need from the
design team? (zone supply air flow rate, outdoor air flow rate)

Many thanks for your kind help!

Best regards,

Omar Katanani

Omar Katanani's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
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Hi Omar,

At least your life is normal with having to do some sim runs last minute for
your engineers, and they think it is easy for you...

This is not an easy thing to do with one day notice....based on my one time
experience with modeling a VRV system.

What I learned from modeling my VRV model was this:

1. One it is critical to know the Mfg (or use a sample Mfg as a place
holder until they specify which Mfg will be used). I learned from speaking
with a Mitsubishi rep that the Mfg will be able to give you the specific
performance data that you need for thier equipment. When I used the Mfg
data provided to me for the project units that were specified the energy
efficiency of the VRV systems could be demonstrated in eQuest better than
just using the 90.1 baseline performance #'s.
(The advantage to using VRV systems is that they are SUPER
HIGH efficiency compared to other HVAC systems types including hydronic
systems. These are the new premium efficiency systems that are being chosen
for more and more designs lately.)
2. There were two numbers that I received from the Mfg for each of the
equipment models that were being installed. He gave me a new EIR number to
input for the dx cooling input, and he gave me a new fan power number.
After inputting these manufacturer-provided data, this is when I really saw
the drop in energy use in my proposed model---YAY!
3. I attempted to input custom curves for the equipment, but I was under
a time crunch and I couldn't get them to work, so I had to go with only the
partial estimate of energy savings (without the effect of the
part-load curves.) If I could have taken more time to work on the specific
curve data then I know I could have shown even more savings than what I was
seeing with the two previous inputs.
4. It is best to use the system type of "PVVT" (pkg vari vol & temp)
system. This system has a check box in eQuest to select *variable speed
compressor.* This option is not available in other system types which
makes this system choice the best representation for a real-life VRV heat
pump system.

I will also forward you a file of a presentation done a few years ago that
has some guidance info on how to perform VRV system inputs into eQuest.
This will help get you going on your analysis.

In my case I was happy that I could show a good chunck of energy savings
with only the first 2 inputs...at least I could show my client that "yes,
your choice for VRV systems will offer higher energy savings." It was
better for me to be able to show some energy savings with my inputs as
opposed to not being able to demonstrate any savings because eQuest (and
other sim programs) cannot accurately perform simulations for VRV systems.
In this case, my client was happy (& content) with seeing 'some rather than
none.' I just explained to them that there are limitations in simulation
software to do this, but a good educated "guesstimate" from eQuest was
better than nothing.

I don't think that you will be able to complete this analysis before your
meeting, but you can let your client know that you are working on the
analysis and this type of system is difficult to represent in our current
software packages available.

I know other simulators on this list have more experience with VRV systems
than I do, so maybe do a search in the eQuest archives for more discussions
on VRVs.

Hope this helps, good luck.

Pasha

Pasha Korber-Gonzalez's picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 600