[eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City

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Dear all,
?
I am working with an energy analysis?in eQuest of a?grocery store at Mexico City.?? The grocery store is a small 9,217 sq.ft. with?138 people (approx) at the same time (67 sq.ft./person).? The only loads that I am using are lighting and appliances.? The store is considered as a "dry store".? I am not placing any big commercial refrigerator for meat.?
?
I have some problems with the infiltration and ventilation. The more I read about these topics and try to apply the information to the model, the more confused I get over and over again.? I am not sure if I have introduced the right data to eQuest.? I used 0.161 ACH for infiltration from the following source in page 32 (infiltration) in the internal loads for the space properties:
?
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42828.pdf
?
I am not sure if I input this in the right place.? The ventilation is another issue that I do not have any clue.? What should I put and where should I put it?? These are the only problems, with my limited experience,?that could be causing some problems.??? I am attaching the INP and the PD2 files plus an AutoCAD file, because I drew the floorplan and imported it to eQuest.? Please, any help will be greatly appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

=?iso-8859-1?Q?jos=FFffffffffffe9_luis_berm=FFfffffffffffade's picture
Joined: 2013-07-25
Reputation: 0

Without looking at the model I can flag a few items for consideration. The
people load is too high. ASHRAE 62.1-2010 Table 6-1 has an occupancy
density of 8 people per 1000 ft?. That would put your people load at 74
people not 138. The infiltration ACH rate is good however if the store has
a vestibule the infiltration rate of the vestibule should be calculated and
modeled. See ASHRAE vestibule infiltration formula for information.

Hope this helps

Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP

Michael Hupel's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-01-20
Reputation: 0

Dear Mr. Hupel:
?
Thank you for your suggestion.? Another point is that?the grocery store?is the first floor of a mid-rise building.? Therefore, I cannot place any rooftop air-conditioning systems.? Any more suggestions will be appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

??

________________________________
De: Mike Hupel Para: 'jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez' ; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Enviado: Mi?rcoles, 24 de julio, 2013 14:22:06
Asunto: RE: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City

Without looking at the model I can flag a few items for consideration.? The people load is too high.? ASHRAE 62.1-2010 Table 6-1 has an occupancy density of 8 people per 1000 ft?.? That would put your people load at 74 people not 138.? The infiltration ACH rate is good however if the store has a vestibule the infiltration rate of the vestibule should be calculated and modeled.? See ASHRAE vestibule infiltration formula for information.?
?
Hope this helps
?
?
Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP

?
?
From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez
Sent: July-24-13 3:07 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Dear all,
?
I am working with an energy analysis?in eQuest of a?grocery store at Mexico City.?? The grocery store is a small 9,217 sq.ft. with?138 people (approx) at the same time (67 sq.ft./person).? The only loads that I am using are lighting and appliances.? The store is considered as a "dry store".? I am not placing any big commercial refrigerator for meat.?
?
I have some problems with the infiltration and ventilation. The more I read about these topics and try to apply the information to the model, the more confused I get over and over again.? I am not sure if I have introduced the right data to eQuest.? I used 0.161 ACH for infiltration from the following source in page 32 (infiltration) in the internal loads for the space properties:
?
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42828.pdf
?
I am not sure if I input this in the right place.? The ventilation is another issue that I do not have any clue.? What should I put and where should I put it?? These are the only problems, with my limited experience,?that could be causing some problems.??? I am attaching the INP and the PD2 files plus an AutoCAD file, because I drew the floorplan and imported it to eQuest.? Please, any help will be greatly appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

=?iso-8859-1?Q?jos=FFffffffffffe9_luis_berm=FFfffffffffffade's picture
Joined: 2013-07-25
Reputation: 0

Since the building is on the first floor of a mid-rise building be sure to
take into consideration the stack effect when calculating the vestibule
infiltration rate.

Best of luck

Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP

Michael Hupel's picture
Offline
Joined: 2012-01-20
Reputation: 0

Dear all,
?
As suggested by Mr. Bishop, I will add the weather data file that I used for the simulation:? MEXICO91.BIN? Any more suggestions will be appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

________________________________
De: Mike Hupel Para: 'jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez' ; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Enviado: Jueves, 25 de julio, 2013 6:46:40
Asunto: RE: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City

Since the building is on the first floor of a mid-rise building be sure to take into consideration the stack effect when calculating the vestibule infiltration rate.?
?
Best of luck
?
?
Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP
From:jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez [mailto:beralco at yahoo.com.mx]
Sent: July-24-13 11:45 PM
To: Mike Hupel; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: beralco at yahoo.com.mx
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Dear Mr. Hupel:
?
Thank you for your suggestion.? Another point is that?the grocery store?is the first floor of a mid-rise building.? Therefore, I cannot place any rooftop air-conditioning systems.? Any more suggestions will be appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

?
?
De:Mike Hupel Para: 'jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez' ; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Enviado: Mi?rcoles, 24 de julio, 2013 14:22:06
Asunto: RE: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Without looking at the model I can flag a few items for consideration.? The people load is too high.? ASHRAE 62.1-2010 Table 6-1 has an occupancy density of 8 people per 1000 ft?.? That would put your people load at 74 people not 138.? The infiltration ACH rate is good however if the store has a vestibule the infiltration rate of the vestibule should be calculated and modeled.? See ASHRAE vestibule infiltration formula for information.?
?
Hope this helps
?
?
Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP


From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez
Sent: July-24-13 3:07 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Dear all,
?
I am working with an energy analysis?in eQuest of a?grocery store at Mexico City.?? The grocery store is a small 9,217 sq.ft. with?138 people (approx) at the same time (67 sq.ft./person).? The only loads that I am using are lighting and appliances.? The store is considered as a "dry store".? I am not placing any big commercial refrigerator for meat.?
?
I have some problems with the infiltration and ventilation. The more I read about these topics and try to apply the information to the model, the more confused I get over and over again.? I am not sure if I have introduced the right data to eQuest.? I used 0.161 ACH for infiltration from the following source in page 32 (infiltration) in the internal loads for the space properties:
?
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42828.pdf
?
I am not sure if I input this in the right place.? The ventilation is another issue that I do not have any clue.? What should I put and where should I put it?? These are the only problems, with my limited experience,?that could be causing some problems.??? I am attaching the INP and the PD2 files plus an AutoCAD file, because I drew the floorplan and imported it to eQuest.? Please, any help will be greatly appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

=?iso-8859-1?Q?jos=FFffffffffffe9_luis_berm=FFfffffffffffade's picture
Joined: 2013-07-25
Reputation: 0

Dear all,
?
I changed the occupancy density to 74 instead of 138 people.? I ran the file and some questions appeared:
?
1) Should the space cooling energy from the PS-E report be the same if I add the lighting and?the miscellaneous equipment energy?from the same report?? ?If it does, I am not getting the enough space cooling energy for the year.

2) Is it logical to have more than 54% of the 8760 hours during the year outside of a 70 to 72F thermostat setpoint range?? I looked the column for the Perimeter Zone/Zone Temperature in the Hourly Reports and check for the minimum and maximum temperature recorded for this column.? (NOTE:? those hours out of range are over 72F.? I saw several hours with 72.1F, 72.2F, 72.3F up to 73F).

All suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards,

Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

________________________________
De: Mike Hupel Para: 'jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez' ; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Enviado: Jueves, 25 de julio, 2013 6:46:40
Asunto: RE: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City

Since the building is on the first floor of a mid-rise building be sure to take into consideration the stack effect when calculating the vestibule infiltration rate.?
?
Best of luck
?
?
Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP
From:jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez [mailto:beralco at yahoo.com.mx]
Sent: July-24-13 11:45 PM
To: Mike Hupel; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Cc: beralco at yahoo.com.mx
Subject: Re: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Dear Mr. Hupel:
?
Thank you for your suggestion.? Another point is that?the grocery store?is the first floor of a mid-rise building.? Therefore, I cannot place any rooftop air-conditioning systems.? Any more suggestions will be appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

?
?
De:Mike Hupel Para: 'jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez' ; equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Enviado: Mi?rcoles, 24 de julio, 2013 14:22:06
Asunto: RE: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Without looking at the model I can flag a few items for consideration.? The people load is too high.? ASHRAE 62.1-2010 Table 6-1 has an occupancy density of 8 people per 1000 ft?.? That would put your people load at 74 people not 138.? The infiltration ACH rate is good however if the store has a vestibule the infiltration rate of the vestibule should be calculated and modeled.? See ASHRAE vestibule infiltration formula for information.?
?
Hope this helps
?
?
Michael Hupel, B.Tech, CEM, LEED?AP


From:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org [mailto:equest-users-bounces at lists.onebuilding.org] On Behalf Of jos?ffffffffffe9 luis berm?fffffffffffadez
Sent: July-24-13 3:07 PM
To: equest-users at lists.onebuilding.org
Subject: [Equest-users] [eQuest-users] Simulation problems with infiltration and ventilation for a grocery store at Mexico City
?
Dear all,
?
I am working with an energy analysis?in eQuest of a?grocery store at Mexico City.?? The grocery store is a small 9,217 sq.ft. with?138 people (approx) at the same time (67 sq.ft./person).? The only loads that I am using are lighting and appliances.? The store is considered as a "dry store".? I am not placing any big commercial refrigerator for meat.?
?
I have some problems with the infiltration and ventilation. The more I read about these topics and try to apply the information to the model, the more confused I get over and over again.? I am not sure if I have introduced the right data to eQuest.? I used 0.161 ACH for infiltration from the following source in page 32 (infiltration) in the internal loads for the space properties:
?
http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy08osti/42828.pdf
?
I am not sure if I input this in the right place.? The ventilation is another issue that I do not have any clue.? What should I put and where should I put it?? These are the only problems, with my limited experience,?that could be causing some problems.??? I am attaching the INP and the PD2 files plus an AutoCAD file, because I drew the floorplan and imported it to eQuest.? Please, any help will be greatly appreciated.
?
Kind regards,
?
Jose Luis Bermudez Alcocer.

=?iso-8859-1?Q?jos=FFffffffffffe9_luis_berm=FFfffffffffffade's picture
Joined: 2013-07-25
Reputation: 0