[Equest-users] Wizard BDL Error When Defining Custom Zones

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Dear eQuesters:

I am having a problem defining custom zones in the DD Wizard.

I can add one zone no problem. Please see attached maplewood zone 1.jpg

When I try to add the second zone (maplewood zone 2.jpg) I get the three zone
error messages.jpg attached.

I typically add zones in this manner and have not had a problem before. Any
ideas?

Thank you,

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

looks like you're closing out of equest/wizard without finishing your
zoning? so equest does a check on the entire model & finds zones
without hvac assignments & returns the error.

Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.'s picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0

Patrick:

Yes I am closing out before finishing the zoning but I have done so successfully
on other models and the basement level of this model.

I even tried defining several large zones in this model on the floor that is
causing me problems and I still get the errors. I do not get errors if I choose
one zone per floor.

Thanks for your response,

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

is there an hvac unit already created without assignments? or assigned
per floor so if the floor zoning isn't done the error is returned?

Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.'s picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0

Patrick:

The HVAC unit is assigned for each zone I enter. Initially, I had one zone per
floor. When I started to add custom zones I made sure that each zone on screen
14 of the shell create/modify wizard is assigned to the hvac system.

I am unsure of what the error message means so I am having difficulty correcting
it. I even tried to create custom zones on the second floor of this building
and I get the same error, but I was able to create custom zones in the basement
of this building without any errors.

Sincerely,

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

looking back at the error message it is indicating that there base cause
is there is missing space data, so the zone the space should be assigned
to generates an error, and the hvac unit the zone is assigned to
generates an error.

so ... even if you create one space does the .inp file reflect the input
properly? i.e. one space, assigned to one zone, assigned to one hvac unit?

or is your space or zone name too long? perhaps greater than 32 characters?

Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.'s picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0

Patrick:

I cannot tell what the .inp files is reflecting because the input file is very
short, only 1 kb long when the error occurs. I did not enter a custom zone
name, I let eQuest automatically assign zone names.

I usually let one HVAC system serve multiple zones as required by 90.1. I tried
creating another HVAC system for each custom zone and this did not help.

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

looking at screen 14, do you have a zone group defined without a zone
assigned to it? this would be the same as having an empty zone in
detailed mode (i.e. no space assigned to a zone). detailed mode
requiring the space (your initial customing zoning) assigned to a zone
(the zone group wizard screen 14) assigned to an hvac unit of some type.

Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.'s picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0

Paul---how about attaching your .pd2, .inp, and dwg file and see if we get
the same error on our computer....

My guess is that it is a shell error, or some corruption in your whole
file....you might have to start a new file.

I'm happy to try and recreate the error on my computer.

Pasha

Pasha Korber-Gonzalez's picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

Patrick:

Thank you for your efforts. No, I don't have a zone group without a zone
attached to it. Kindly check the attached files to see if I missed something.

Pasha:

Attached is the project rev1 and rev2 files. Rev1 is fine with one zone added
on the first floor main shell. Rev2 is with a second zone added to the first
floor main shell and is where I am encountering the problems.

Thank you so much for checking this out for me.

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

Whoops, forgot to send the drawing files.

Please find attached in AutoCAD-2007 format.

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

i note the following:

1. first floor shells have zones not assigned to a zone group wizard.
see attached.
2. the first error message i get after just looking at these & leaving
the wizard is: ShellWiz has no valid ZnGrpWiz children. which is
directly related to #1.
3. after okaying thru the dialogs the message about bld erros the
dialog w/the original 3 error messages you uploaded is presented.
4. looking at 3d view the basement appears to be missing a roof/ceiling.

Patrick J. O'Leary, Jr.'s picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 0

I don't personally have the time to dig at this today - but another
suspect cause from what I've read is that one or more of your
shells/zones may geometrically be in conflict with each other, even if
only by a small amount. I'd therefore review your shell placement
inputs (I always use coordinates myself), and see if moving them
distinctly apart has any effect on whether errors are encountered, as
well as whether you're not accidentally specifying zone vertices that
result in conflicting zone footprints (CAD/vertex snaps can be deceptive
at times, even when you're being careful).

Good luck team!

~Nick

NICK CATON, P.E.

Nick-Caton's picture
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Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 605

Hi Paul--- I looked at your model file: Rev 1.--I was able to add a 2nd &
3rd zone to the 1st Floor Main shell with no problems. When I closed out of
the navigator I did get the BDL errors that you refferred to, but none of
them had to do with zoning of your 1st floor shell. They are errors that
are associated with other shells that you have defined.

I also looked at Rev2 and saw the same things.

These are some thoughts and observations about your model file from one
simulator to another:

- Why are you working with 17 shells in your model? Is this absolutely
necessary? I recommend using the "layer cake" building method using shells
(as a floor by floor input) and this should be able to get you to 5 shells
or less for your entire model. I always try to stick with a lesser amount of
shells if possible.
- You have already input all of your shells before you have completed the
custom zoning in them---this type of approach can be confusing to eQuest and
may cause it to get 'finicky' (sp?)--in my opinion/experience. I have a
gut feeling that your errors in your model will go away once you are
finished adding all your custom zoning/zones to the model and to all your
shells.
- I suggest that you check "off" the box in the wizard that says "display
zone grouping screen" #13 screen by doing this for all of the 17 shells
that you have active in your model I think that this will eliminate one of
the 3 BDL errors you are getting. After you have your custom zoning
completed then you can go back to those zone group screens and continue with
your inputs to move forward.
- The errors you are getting aren't too alarming to me from looking at
your files. I believe taht these errors are just a result of eQuest getting
a lot of 'unfinished' input info all at once and it is running into errors
until you can complete your input data into the wizard.

I suggest that you keep plugging away with your model file and as long as
you are able to add your zones to your shells then you shouldn't have any
problems getting this done. I had no problem adding a couple of shells to
the 1st floor main shell. Check out the attached model file that I
adjusted.

Cheers,
Pasha

Pasha Korber-Gonzalez's picture
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400

Pasha, Patrick and Nick:

Thank you for taking time to look at my problem.

I deleted 5 of the first floor shells and was able to custom zone the main first
floor shell. Then I added the other first floor shells one by one, custom
zoning as I went along and did not experience any errors.

Yes, 17 shells is a bit much, but I could find no other way to accurately model
this unusual building. It is an old factory being renovated and expanded to a
residential elderly complex. There are three separated crawl spaces under the
first floor. Part of the first floor is over a crawl space or the basement and
part of the first floor is slab on grade. Part of the first floor is under the
second floor and portions of the first floor are under a roof. So it required 6
shells just for this floor.

Sincerely,

Paul Diglio

Paul Diglio's picture
Offline
Joined: 2011-09-30
Reputation: 400