Good morning,

For you Canadians, I have a question about how to model the area where a

floor slab intersects the exterior wall.

Specifically, Section 3.1.1.7.8) of the 2015 NECB says that "wall

assemblies shall be considered to include all related structural framing

and perimeter areas of intersecting interior walls *but shall not include

the perimeter areas where floor or roof slabs interrupt the wall's

construction." *

There is a reference to Note A-3.1.1.7.(8) which provides an illustration

to depict the extent of the surface that is considered as a wall at the

intersection with a floor. In this note, it also says "This Code may have

different requirements for the perimeter area of floors."

Since I haven't seen any such requirements (how anyone else), I'm not sure

how to treat this area.

When I have a building in which the insulating layer in the exterior wall

assembly is intersected by the floor slab (thus breaking the insulation

plane), I typically model my Proposed building with a separate assembly for

the slab edge and assign a low R-value (reflective of a wall with no

insulation).

My question then is, in this case, what would people model for the

Reference model in terms of R-value at the slab edge (where the floor

intersects the wall)?

As mentioned, I have not seen anything in NECB that specifically deals with

the treatment of the slab edge (other than at grade level). Would the

Reference model carry the same R-value as the Proposed model?

Thank you in advance for your input and thoughts.

Chris

Hi Chris,

Not a Canadian but this situation sounds very similar to what I also

frequently encounter when I have to model above-grade wall floor edges for

the baseline and proposed models. I couldn't find any mention of how to

model the baseline floor edges in ASHRAE 90.1-2016. For the baseline model

floor edges, I typically use the baseline above-grade wall

constructions/U-values for the floor edges and model the proposed floor

edges without any insulation as you have done. You can also try looking at

Energy Star's Multifamily High Rise Simulation Guidelines Version 1.0,

December 2017 Example 6-2, which supports your idea of modeling your

proposed floor edges without any insulation.

Kind regards,

Calvin

On Thu, Apr 25, 2019 at 12:02 PM Chris Hadlock via Equest-users <

--

*Calvin Chu, EIT*

Energy Modeler

646-780-5536 | cchu at brightpower.com

www.brightpower.com

11 Hanover Square, 21st Floor

New York, NY 10005

Chris,

The NECB 2011 and 2015 assume that the Reference case envelope is perfect and that there are no penetrations of the insulation plane. For the Proposed case, both standards give you the 2% opt out clause ? if the total penetrated area is less than/equal to the maximum of 2%, it can be ignored. If the area is greater than 2%, you need to calculate the effect of these penetrated areas on the overall wall R-value. The NECB 2017 mandates calculation of linear transition and point transition thermal bridges but still maintains that the Reference case envelope is perfect ? unlike the BC Hydro assumption that applies an insulation derating factor to the Reference case effective insulation.

I did a calculation of the effect of balconies on a typical MURB with 5% total balcony slab edge are total wall area. The Shock balcony thermal break system would take over 20 years to payback ? Toronto climate much longer in Vancouver. That is ignoring thermal comfort issues, potential condensation issues, etc.

Christopher R Jones, P.Eng.

T+ 1 416-644-0252

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